Letters from January 2000

I am told that, at the 11th October meeting organised by the Greenwich Waterfront Community Forum to discuss the future of Lovell’s Wharf, it was said that John Prescott had done the journey by boat from Greenwich to the Dome and was not impressed at what he saw on the Greenwich bank.

The understanding is that he is trying to get Morden College and their developers to the hotel/apartments application - pro tem - and that he has asked English Partnerships or, or whatever that regeneration agency is called these days, to come up with a development framework for the whole of the industrial area from the east Greenwich Power Station to the west side of the Peninsula.

This initiative is to be welcomed but there had to be concern that the strategy is not being extended further downstream from the Millennium Village site, for which English Partnerships are already responsible, to the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich, where again English Partnerships are the key players.

It is also essential that comprehensive grass roots consultation with existing land users, residents, and local amenity groups is built into the development framework from the very beginning. English Partnership’s track record in this respect has, in the past, left much to be desired and now is the opportunity for English Partnerships and Greenwich Council to show that they value a true consultation process and do not just pay lip service to it.

I am researching my family history but I live in Southampton and don’t know Greenwich very well.  I have discovered that my ancestors were Lightermen on the Thames and several generations have lived at Greenwich.

The 1881 Census shows my great grandfather, William George Allen, living at 3 Crooms Hill with his family of 10 children (4 of his sons became Lightermen). My grandfather (his second son) was also the licensee of the ‘Sun’ public house at Wood Wharf. I would-be interested to learn the exact location of that pub and some of its history, if possible.

Another query is that many Allen families are shown on Census returns (1851 onwards) as living in Bridge Place and Bridge Street. I’m curious to know if these are two different roads, or are they one and the same? 

I thought you might be interested to hear that I was invited to Broadcasting House to take part in the BBC Radio Four programme Book Club.  The book discussed was ‘Longitude’ and the author, Dave Sobell, was very interesting.  I run a readers group in my village and took five members to the BBC.  As the broadcast was not recorded until late afternoon there was time for a visit to Greenwich to see Harrison’s clocks at Flamsteed House - everyone was VERY impressed and I hope their reactions will be part of the broadcast.

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has information about the glass bottle manufacturer Moore and Nettlefold which had a factory in North Woolwich during the late nineteenth century and moved to Charlton in about 1908.  I have come across a number of accounts in the local news-papers of fights between the German and Lithuanian employees. 

We have  particular interest in the rope and cable companies. My great  great grand parents moved from Camberwell to East Greenwich around 1858-60. The family had followed work from Limehouse in the early 1800s to Chatham around 1840. Great grandfather came back to Limehouse around 1855 and then to Camberwell and finally to Greenwich. Their address in the 1861 census is 2 Enderby Cottages. We gave searched map after map to locate the cottage but cannot find them.

I became interested in Brickmaking and thought of the 'Brickmakers' index to help family historians. Once it grew and took over part of my life the information requested of it extended the database and now I get questions in daily - today’s questions  were about Arlesey brickworks and the GOODWINs and the other about the HUNTERs of Cumberland.

Which brings me to the point. I have done articles on the Woolwich, Plumstead and East Wickham brickfields but I was recently asked about a brickmaker in Ordnance Place, Woolwich in 1853 which I assume meant he worked at Charles Gates Brickfield or with Robert Jolly. Has anyone done any research on brickfields in the Arsenal or Woolwich Common military areas? Where there brickfields here? I know Chatham dockyard had its own brickfield on St Mary's Island so wondered if Woolwich might have the same.  

The American Ambassador with Barratt staff unveiled the Virginia Settlers Monument at Blackwall on Thursday 23rd September.  We are going to have our own ceremony soon and invite the Governor of Virginia, and Dale (Newport's descendent). Someone will have to pay their Hotel bills though!

I went to the National Maritime Museum to see if I could find details of the Bulli which you mentioned in the last edition of the Newsletter. (wrecked off Tasmania, but in built in Greenwich),. No trace at all in Lloyds Register although she should be there. The Mercantile Navy list for 1875 states: Bulli. Official Number 64409 Registered at Sydney, New South Wales, 1873, built East Greenwich 1872 Iron constriction, dimensions, 180 ft zx 23.2 ft x 15.9 ft. Nett tons 334, gross tons 496. She  was screwdriven and had a 100 hp engine. Owner Bulli Coal Mining Company, Sydney, New South Wales.  By the 1877/78 Volume she had acquired the identifying code flag signal WNGR

I checked in Lloyds list under Casualties for June July and August 1877 but found no retrace. Had she been in Lloyds Register there would have been more details of her engine and also the month in which she was launched. A opt as this would've made it easier to check the Kentish mercury. At the end of earlier volumes of the MBN List . they mentions losses of vessels in the previous year,but I could find no mention of the Bulli, probably because there was apparently some chance of salvaging her. Otherwise I would have found the date of her stranding.

My family lived in East Greenwich for many years during the 1700s and 1800s - and took their living from the river.

Recently I was surprised to discover that my family were originally boat builders situated at Crowley’s Wharf.  Their name was ‘Hoskins’ but unfortunately there appears to be no record of this little firm anywhere - except a brief mention in the directories of Pigot’s (1827-1839) However in the baptism registers for St.Alphege I have found a Samuel Hoskins, boat builder, baptising his son Workman in 1777 and a Workman Hoskins boat builder (my 4 x great-grandfather) baptising his sons in 1799.

Greenwich Local History could only tell mention they think ‘Hoskins Street was named after this firm as it was originally Bennett Street and ran down to Crowley’s Wharf.

My father David Alan Hoskins, was amazed at my discovery and felt very proud because he makes the most beautiful model boats. There is one of his in the window of the Greenwich Model Shop under the name of David Alan. 

During the early 1980s, Trafalgar House acquired some of the constructional divisions of British Steel and integrated them into the Cleveland Bridge Group. These included the works formerly belonging to Dorman Long (Bridge and Engineering) and Redpath Brown. By then, operations at the former Redpath Brown and Dorman Long sites at East Greenwich had ceased. So the present day Cleveland Bridge Company can claim descent from the builders of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, but a connection between Cleveland Bridge and Greenwich is less obvious.

I have for many years  been researching the life of my Huguenot ancestors and Anne Roper (Ardouin) 1861-1888 who died at Waverley House, Humber Road, Greenwich. Her father, Alfred Ardouin, 1822-1906 lived there with his housekeeper, Margaret Harris, and his niece, Anne Ardouin, until 1894.  Alfred Ardouin was a Master Barge Builder at Anchor and Hope Wharf, Charlton. I believe the Anchor and Hope Pub is still there. 

From a memorial about Albert Frederick Bolton. ‘When Prince Charles was born, he made a wooden model of a steam engine for a present, for he was a skilled metal and woodworker. Albert loved to demonstrate to anyone interested, his accurate, working, scale model of a Merryweather fire engine complete with extending ladders. He said he had had a lot of difficulty over the hosepipes and eventually hit on the idea of white cylindrical shoelaces.

His model won him first prize at an exhibition of Hoover employees' work - an upright washing machine which were then just coming on to the market. that would have been c.1950?